Thursday, March 14, 2013

Pain, Suffering, and Experience

There are many themes reinforced in the Shakespearean drama Macbeth. Please answer the following question in a highly structured paragraph by 12:00 AM Sunday, March 17, 2013. Do not forget to post a meaningful response to one of your peers' posts.

If ghosts do not exist then what becomes of the pain, suffering, and experiences of people when we die?

52 comments:

  1. Ghost are alive, they are what revolves in the human brain. As humanity dies, humanity is left forgotten, though some are remember clear and loud enough to not allow them to sleep peacefully. A body once dead is suppose to be kept peaceful in their grave. I personally believe that ghost are only seen through a persons will power and open minded ability. Although ghost are said to be evil spirits they do not have to be evil figures aimlessly roaming around. As a body disintegrates into soul the pain, grief, suffering leave with them. Not a single remembrance should be left with the world alive. A past away individual should be remembered through pictures, memories, and the good of their being. Upon allowing a ghostly image to be exposed of an individual-- the ghost only reflects the selfishness of the living world-- thereby the dead is forgotten for all the good they ever served. The pain, suffering, and experience of people die amongst them, as only such memories and images are remembered by their brain, that brain and the memory is lost to the dead, the dead that is peacefully at rest.

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    1. I see your point in the fact that a dead body should buried and kept peaceful; however, while the body may be at peace the memory lives on. A stained memory or regret that a person may feel towards the day body can fester and cause a person to become physically and mentally ill as was the case with Macbeth.

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    2. I appreciate your understand and i understand your confusion, but i must argue towards my defense. But what I meant to say was that a person should not have a negative outlook of a person, especially if they are no longer alive. Therefore if a human is no longer existent physically there should be no reason for their "ghost" or their "pain and suffering" to exist. But I understand if your point of view.

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    3. Great post! Please relate it to Macbeth. I am interested to see how you connect it to the text.

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    4. Liz i agree with you i think that if a person passed away then why keep thinking of it. For example in macbeth macbeth thought of the dead king and all the people that he killed and he's concise was constantly thinking of them that he would even see them.

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    5. Tying the post back to Macbeth I must agree with Yoali, For example, the only reason that Macbeth became mentally ill was because he kept repeating the lives he had taken away. A persons death is suppose to be slowly forgotten because of the pain a death brings upon a humans health. If only Macbeth would have left the murders in the past not only would the bad memories slowly disappear but his own health would also be in a better shape.

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  2. Ghosts often times are just figments of our imagination. The grief, pain, and suffering we feel over a loved one's death may manifest itself into a nontangible optical illusion. When we die the pain and suffering we felt dies with us; however, our death causes pain and suffering for our loved ones. Thus in a sense our our pain and suffering never really dies the burden is just passed on down the generations.

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    1. Interesting that you mention ghost as nontangible optical illusions. If it were not for such illusions there would be no lesson learned. There would be no reminder of the person’s death. If their illusion does not exist, then there is no way of learning. Furthermore, when there is a remembrance of a pain or suffering then the existence of a ghost is prevalent.

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    2. "Suffering never really dies the burden is just passed on down the generations" is true depending on how close to that deceased individual.Like i said in my comment it all depends on your beliefs.

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    3. I agree with you; however, ghost may not be a figment of our imagination. They have technology that actually proves there are higher entities that cannot be seen to the human eye. This is the pain, suffering, and experiences that stayed alive from a death of someone.

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    4. Chris:

      How does your theory relate to Macbeth? Also, please look at Brianna's response. The same concept caught my attention as well. Please elaborate more on that claim or idea; it is intriguing.

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    5. The question then becomes what exactly is a ghost? Is it a phantom of a dead loved one that's sole purpose is to haunt us with the pain and grief of their death? Or could the Pain and grief alone be considered a ghost? Brianna are you saying that unless there is physical illusion of a dead loved one no lesson can be learned from their death?

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  3. Pain, suffering, and experiences of people when they die only fuel the existence of ghosts. In this case, if ghosts were nonexistent then the pain and suffering when we die has nowhere to go. In Macbeth, the murder of the king had no long-term effects on Macbeth; there was no ghost to continue to remind Macbeth of his foul actions. Dependent on the views of death, people include their own opinions on what happens in the afterlife. In other words, society’s views vary depending on either religious aspects or the stories passed down from generations to generations. However, ghost can only exist if the person dying has pain and suffering that was not resolved. As a result, if ghosts do not exist then the pain, suffering and experiences of people when they die also is nonexistent. There is not a life form holding on to such influential aspects of one's life and can no longer be a burden on one's shoulders. All in all, ghosts can only exist if such sufferings and experiences of those who die are left to be resolved, ghost can only be nonexistent when there is no pain, suffering and experiences of people when they die.

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    1. I agree with you when you claim that ghosts exist due to unresolved conflicts. Do you believe that the king's ghost would ever appear to Macbeth if Banquo's had not? The king was also killed in a way full of betrayal similar to that of Banquo's so why had his ghost not appeareed (after all king duncan trusted Macbeth with all he head)?

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    2. Please answer her question Brianna. I am interested to hear your response.

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    3. Ghosts are the human’s imagination of what remains of a love one after their death. For one, as long as the person contains the memory of the deceased in their mind, the memory will only retrieve the pain and suffering of time that once existed and will never occur again. The ghosts are the stage of denial; the person refuses to comprehend the concept that death as taken a love one. The person tries to keep the memory of the person alive as much as possible in order to sooth their denial. For instance in Macbeth, when Macbeth believes to see the ghost of the deceased king he instantly becomes insane with the idea that the king may still be alive. Part of Macbeth denies to have killed the king and goes into a stage of denial where he did not kill the king. Moreover, he tries to prove the king’s ghosts to the people around him (which of course he fails to do so) and later contributes to his downfall.

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  4. Ghosts are just memories of loved ones that people do not let go. The longer a loved one is dead the more they are their existence is left behind;the pain,grief,suffering as well as all the good they have done is forgotten.Depending on ones view of the afterlife,deceased loved ones might cease to exist or they may be reincarnated. There is no correct answer to this question it all depends on ones beliefs.

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    1. Yes you are correct, "it depends on ones beliefs." But by saying that Ghost are memories of loved ones, are you saying Macbeth loved Banquo?

      Ghost many times are viewed as evil or souls that have unfinished business in this world. In Macbeth's case Banquo, I believe, was haunting Macbeth to reveal and expose what Macbeth had really done.

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    2. Miguel I understand your analogy but I do believe that Jose was not meaning to take it back to Macbeth. Although Macbeth did in a way once care for Banquo he might not have loved him but his envy made him meaninglessly despise him.

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    3. I have to agree with Miguel's assessment and ask about what how it works if a ghost is the one who has not let go. It was quite evident in the play that MacBeth did not love Banquo, so why would the reappearance of Banquo after his death be revealed to MacBeth?

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    4. I would say that the reappearance of Banquo affected Macbeth because of his jealousy of banquo's sons. He wanted to be the greatest king there ever was; after he had killed Banquo he felt guilty and knew that the kingship was not rightfully his.

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    5. Jose:
      Although there is not a right or wrong answer to this question, it is up to the writer to develop an opinion and explain his/her rational. Think about it: ALL questions can be answered by saying it depends on one's belief system or core values, especially since each person's response will dictate how they analyze perceive or view pain and suffering. However, this point here is where you have to choose a lens or ethical approach to analyze the text or the situation. For example, if you choose to analyze the situation from a religious--Judeo-Christian--perspective, then that is the lens you choose to discuss the context of the situation. OR, If you choose to apply a specific philosophical or ethical approach, then that is another method of processing the situation or events.
      In short, the question actually told you to go back to the text and support your thinking/claim using evidence from the drama. Therefore, if you considered the text when you wrote this post, you could have provided your readers with a definitive answer. Please use the text when discussing the ideas in the blog.

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    6. @Miguel I did not literally mean loved one more like a person one cares about since at one point in the drama Banquo and MacBeth were friends.

      Relating it to Macbeth, I believe the appearance of Banqou's ghost was Macbeth guilty conscience playing tricks on him. In MacBeth's case all the pain, suffering, and experiences of people die were overwhelming and lead to his downfall.

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  5. Pain -both emotional and physical- leave behind memories of an event that has unfolded. When pain occurs a certain memory is recorded to understand the pain its self. Connecting to suffering and experiences of people who die -which is conclude as emotional- those memories of those that have past play out in ones mind to bring content. I believe if a person had a unique connection with someone that has passed they see a vision of them or a form of a "ghost". Like shown in Macbeth, Macbeth orders Murders to kill Banquo -due to Banquo's prophecies. When the deed is done Macbeth starts to see Banquo's ghost and this starts to make Macbeth uneven. In this case we can conclude that even though Banquo was Macbeth's friend Banquo was betrayed and hunted Macbeth for his unlawful action. This connection to Macbeth and Banquo was evil.

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    1. "Banquo was betrayed and *haunted* Macbeth"

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    2. I enjoyed reading your post. I found it interesting that you said, " I believe if a person had a unique connection with someone that has passed they see a vision of them or a form of a 'ghost'" How does this concept/theory relate to Lady Macbeth who sees the "spot" on her hand? Please explain.

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    3. The spot resembles blood from the night Macbeth murdered Duncan, since Lady Macbeth had helped commit the crime (you can say) Duncan started to haunt Lady Macbeth. Lady Macbeth started to become weak and fear her own guilt in her sleep and started to see the spot/blood on her hand. A crime that she can not wash away.

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  6. Within the play "Macbeth" a ghostly apparition haunts Macbeth. This ghostly apparition is a result of the pain and betrayal in which Macbeth inflicted upon his friend Banquo (the ghostly apparation)when he hired murderers to kill him. Banquo's ghost drove Macbeth to his breaking point and was a climax of sorts within the play. Banquo's painful leave from this worlds plane caused him to return once again to haunt his so-called-friend. However, this play is purely fiction and may cause one to believe if ghosts truly do exist. If ghosts do not exist then what might occur in the play instead? If Macbeth did not see Banquo's ghost then perhaps his breaking point would occur further in the future and he would succeed in winning the war. If one is killed in a heinous manner than all the pain in which they feel will merely disappear. The people who loved those who were deceased will still mourn yet they may rest knowing that their loved one automatically passed on due to ghosts not existing. If ghosts do not exist then the dead will not have to be stuck in libido if they were killed in a heinous manner. The deceased would make their way to heaven or whatever place they would travel to. However, this feat could cause the deceased to feel a sense of emptiness for not getting the justice in which they deserve as well.

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    1. Thank you for actually relating your post to the text as directed/implied. However, I am a bit confused. Are you saying that ghosts only exist if the deceased individual dies unjustly or tortured? I am very confused by your post.

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    2. @Happy: In my own beliefs I always thought that ghosts were those whom lacked a method to pass on--stuck in libido per say. Those souls who lacked a peaceful departure or had any form of unfinished business might remain in the in-between world and I should have made this clearer in my post. Those whom are tortured and unjustly would most definitely be left behind as ghosts if this were true, yet I should not have merely generalized ghosts to only be plausible towards such a grisly scenario.

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  7. If ghost do not exist the pain, suffering, and experiences of people are recycled. Just like Mother Nature recycles the energy of dead plants to create new plants; the pain, suffering, and experiences are passed onto other people. So, technically, the pain, suffering, and experiences are not dissipated, but are given to others. Most people will use this to make themselves stronger, while others it will devastate them. No matter what they do with it, it is still going to be there.

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    1. So then you would agree that the ghosts past life would recycle? Be reincarnated? Interesting. But some things you cannot recycle like the ghost itself.

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    2. Miguel, I am not sure what you mean. Do you mind restating or rephrasing your questions?

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    3. Aaron:
      Please explain how this post relates to Macbeth. How does your theory apply to the characters?
      As well, I am interested who helped you craft this response. If you did this by yourself, I expect all writing assignments to be to this caliber from now on.

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    4. The personal feelings of the ghost can not be recycled. Example, If I die no once would take my full name. There's a chance that someone will, but they will not have the same feelings I had.

      Is that clear? (I'm starting to feel uneasy about my past comment)

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  8. Ghosts are the human’s imagination of what remains of a love one after their death. Therefore, ghosts do not carry any pain, suffering, or experience of any kind. However, ghost can connote to pain, suffering, and experience depending on the person who claims to see them. Ghosts are simply a stage of denial in which humans enter when they do not want to let go of the memory of their love one. Furthermore, ghosts do not exist. It is only through the imagination of humans which ghosts exist and carry pain, suffering, and experience. Besides that, the experiences, pain, and suffering of human simply disappears along with the person

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    1. I found it interesting that you said, "Ghosts are the human’s imagination of what remains of a love one after their death." How does this concept relate to Lady Macbeth? or even Macbeth?

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  9. In Ecclesiastes, King Solomon talks about how everything here has already been, how every action has already been committed, how every thought has already been processed, and how every life has already been lived. Nothing mystical happens to the pain, suffering, or experiences of the person because they have already been experienced, and will in many more people to come. I truly believe that because in our society when a person passes, their memories are lived through by their loved ones. The suffering is reminisced by those who have either committed or bared witness to the suffering themselves. Each experience that a person has had is undoubtedly being remembered, or acted out in each moment where someone else is living.

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    1. Esperanza ElizarrarazMarch 19, 2013 at 8:18 PM

      I do agree with what Maylyne is saying, because her idea is similar to what I thought. Especially when she says, that their memories are lived through by their loved ones. This was a point that I was trying to convey in my explanation and I think that it makes sense, that that pain is lived on through others, especially if they witnessed it as well.

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    2. Maylyne, I enjoyed reading your post--but--I would like to know how does this relate to Macbeth? The characters--Macbeth and Lady Macbeth--have different responses to the pain in their lives. Please focus your response to the text as the question prompted you to do. Thank you

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    3. Belatedly, relating it back to MacBeth I think MacBeth experienced the brunt of the pain that is left over after a loved one dies. For MacBeth, at one point him and Banquo were indeed friends. After allowing for evil greed to consume his actions, MacBeth ended up killing Banquo. But the apparition of Banquo's death allowed for MacBeth to forcefully face his wrongdoings.

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  10. Esperanza ElizarrarazMarch 19, 2013 at 8:14 PM

    In my opinion, when people die and become "ghosts" they basically shut off from everything. Their worries, their pain, their experiences, and everything that they have gone through are no longer a part of them, I guess you could say. Their death has taken them to a place where they have no worries or pain. However all that pain, suffering, and experiences does not disappear either. I think all those things continue to live on through others. In this case, those "others" would be the loved ones of the deceased person, people that surrounded them. When you love someone and really care for them, their pain is your pain. And so even though they have died, everything that they went through and such still lives on in others.

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    1. Thanks for the post--but--please consult the prompt. I would like to know how does this relate to Macbeth? Thank you

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    2. Esperanza ElizarrarazMarch 24, 2013 at 8:54 PM

      Relating to Macbeth, when Banquo died his pain and his experiences most certainly did not leave. They presented themselves to Macbeth in the form of guilt and grief. Macbeth was a very close friend of Banquo, and Macbeth stabbed him in the back, which is why his ghost appeared to Macbeth. I do not really think that those appearances were the "ghost of Banquo", but they were actually Macbeth's guiltiness taking shape in the form of Banquo.

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  11. The pain, suffering, and experiences that one had during his/her lifetime lives on in the memories of their children and/or friends. While some may learn from the pain and suffering, others will feel guilty and think to themselves that they could've done something about it. Personally, I felt guilty when my grandfather passed away. My guilt was revolved around the fact that I did not take enough time out of my life to visit him regularly during his illness. However, I found that he knew I loved him and respected him, I also reminded myself that he partially raised me and would understand that my decisiveness to visit him was juvenile. He would not want me to suffer the guilt like he suffered his illness, nevertheless his pain and suffering turned into life lessons for me as I believe that all sufferings of the dead need to be learned from. Ghosts may not exist, however their memory can be considered as a "ghost" in your mind

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    1. Thank you for being vulnerable and honest. Your grandfather would be proud of the young man you are--and--the man you will become. BUT, please tell me how your thoughts relate to Macbeth.

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  12. Evil brings pain and extreme struggle to an individual and that is presisly why it exist. It is simple, think about a pain or struggle that you overcame that was created by a person that wanted you to fail, in such experiance the outcome-joy and happiness- is the element remembered. The experiance, it self, teaches the individual valuable life lessons improving one's character. It may seem contracducting but even evil has beauty. -Fernando

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    1. Fernando, your post is very insightful. However, how does your post relate to the characters in Macbeth? Do you believe that Macbeth had "hater" or people whom wished ill of him? Please relate your thought to the text and elaborate a bit on the idea of pain and struggle producing joy and pain. Does pain and struggle always produce joy and happiness?

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  13. I think what becomes of the pain and suffering after we die are the memories. Alto the thought of them whom we keep in our minds. The memories that you had with that person. Especially if it was member of your family or a close friend that you lost it is harder to not constantly think of them. But relating it to macbeth i think in he's experience it was more of his concise constantly thinking of the one he killed that made him see them like if they were still alive.

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  14. If there are no ghost then all the pain, suffering, experiences will kept bottled inside the person until they do not know what to do with themselves. That is when a person starts to break down and starts to see things in their mind but think that it is real. For example Lady Macbeth kept on wiping her hands to get the blood stains off of her hands even though the stains were not there anymore. Her mind could not stand the guilt that she had bottled inside, so much so that it was one of the reasons she died.

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  15. Whether ghosts exist or not is a question that may never have an irrefutable answer, but undeniably, the impact of the lost ones cannot be ignored. Aspects such as the pain, suffering, and experiences of a once-living individual is carried onward through the memories of living individuals who once knew of that dead individual. Sometimes, the memories of the dead individual are so powerful as to "haunt" a living person. For example, Macbeth, who killed Banquo, is haunted by the apparition of his victim. If taken from a contemporary or scientific approach, it is very likely that the "ghost" of Banquo is merely a representation of the guilt felt by Macbeth. The memories shared between Macbeth and Banquo serves as a catalyst to elicit Macbeth's conscience. Whether Macbeth actually saw Banquo's ghost or not might simply boil down to him "thinking too much".

    - Kiet

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  16. I think ghosts are often misinterpreted as the dead coming back to haunt the living. However, I believe that a ghost is a representation of the pain, suffering, and experiences the dead leaves behind in those living. Those still living are left to deal with the effect the dead one had on them. For example in Macbeth, Macbeth is haunted by Banquo’s ghost which is merely the conscious of Macbeth going insane because of his guilt in killing him for his own greed. A ghost affects a person in a positive or negative way depending on the relationship he/she may have had with the dead one before death. Moreover, a person may also choose to take no part in the pain, suffering, or memories of people when they die making it disappear with the dead.

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